Post by Anders Hoveland on Feb 1, 2011 11:02:20 GMT -8
Many people think that making information about explosives easily accessible will lead to the information being misused. The existence "Explosives and Weapons Forum" was controversial, and many online readers took oppossing views. Here are some quotes from several commentators:
"This isn't a site about, "How to make things go boom" and "How to blow stuff up!" It's a discussion board for hobbyists, not terrorists. Even chemistry enthusiasts enjoy discussions there on poison gas and explosives--subjects that are taboo on my straitlaced science forums, where the discussions revolve around theory more than practice. If people synthesize explosives and toxic chemicals, they never do it to harm anyone else--they do it for their own pleasure. It's kinda like setting off 4th of July bottle rockets and cherry bombs--does that make you a terrorist? However, as you see, they just do it with 10 kg of high explosive on a beach, with a danger only to the operator. As for me, I'm sick of censoring literature--I don't care what it has in it. The War Gases was published in 1929 as public literature. There were no terrorist attacks using chemical weapons as a result--and that book details very clearly the syntheses of dozens of Chemical Agents. And don't even start with, "terrorism wasn't a problem in the 1930's." Terrorism has ALWAYS existed--9/11 wasn't the start of terror, and terror didn't suddenly get worse after 9/11. There was a bombing on Wallstreet in the 1920s, Alexander II of Russia was assassinated by suicide bombers, there was an assassination attempt on Woodrow Wilson following the German surrender in WWI. We could have a whole list of banned and subversive literature! We could give our kids a dumbed-down science curriculum in school, so they never think about such things. Is this what we want? How much are we willing to sacrifice to the Government to fight an overblown terror threat? Since when has a government proved it can be trusted when it confiscates any reasonable liberties? Is this how free speech and a free press looks to you?"
"Simply knowing how to do something does not mean you will do it. I know how to stab someone with a knife, but I don't think I will. Trying to outlaw its mention or discussion is not going to make the problem go away. Madmen and terrorists wanting to carry out attacks don't post their plans in advance on online forums. And similarly, they don't need them to carry out an attack anyway."
"I totally understand the opinions of many, who see such websites as inappropriate, but they must realise that their existence changes nothing. All the information is freely available anyway. It's just nice to be able to chat about your hobby with like-minded individuals."
"I am currently studying chemistry with biochemistry at Cambridge university, and I certainly would not be there if it were not for the fact that I started playing with pyrotechnics at an early age."
"Everybody nowadays is talking about the threat of bomb making looneys reading those stupid forums like totse.com, but nobody is talking about the 380 tons of high explosive material and weapons that went missing in the desert during America's little war game abroad. Where do you think this eventually goes hmmm...
"Potential terorists can get their training on making bombs in training camps from teachers with lots of practical experience. They do not need such sites"
"Most of what we discuss is totally useless to potential terrorists, anyway. It's too complicated and too expensive. Remember, the world trade centre was smashed to the ground essentially using craft-knives. Terrorists don't care about novel tetrazole-based primaries, or how to add 3% to their yield of RDX. The only people that such knowledge will hurt are the people who use it. Everyone likes fireworks, and you can make them much bigger and better if you make them yourself."
"Nowhere were detailed schemes of how to fly and hijack a commercial airliner. Hell, in fact you could say that Microsoft Flight Simulator is the guilty one, and computer games should be banned since this was used to plan their attack!"
"Although it is an interesting moral problem about the freedom of information, there's no comparison between a group of people making some interesting compounds in their garage and world-wide destruction, without a fairly major leap of imagination."
"iDefense sounds like one of those Fundamentalist groups that try to attack everything by hanging on to politicians. And in a bad way too--they're like those annoying business advertisements. And since this is geared towards hobbyists, it's not like every audience that sees it is going to understand it. Those iDefense attacks are just like people misunderstanding the purpose of science and attacking it for the wrong reasons."
"I don't want this stuff on the web, but I certainly don't want anybody censoring the web. I would rather have a web with porn sites and explosive recipes than have one that our leader is able to make safe."
"Unless there was specific reference to terrorist apparatus and devices / advice, I DO NOT want the government censoring the internet."
"Infomation control is like gun control. Only the Police state and the organised criminals have power."
"It started with the prohibition against pedophilia, then pro terrorist speech, now hate speech what ever the fuck that is (it is in the eye of the beholder, so one never knows).. What will be next? Something will, once we begin to regulate speech there is always a next on the list"
"This isn't a site about, "How to make things go boom" and "How to blow stuff up!" It's a discussion board for hobbyists, not terrorists. Even chemistry enthusiasts enjoy discussions there on poison gas and explosives--subjects that are taboo on my straitlaced science forums, where the discussions revolve around theory more than practice. If people synthesize explosives and toxic chemicals, they never do it to harm anyone else--they do it for their own pleasure. It's kinda like setting off 4th of July bottle rockets and cherry bombs--does that make you a terrorist? However, as you see, they just do it with 10 kg of high explosive on a beach, with a danger only to the operator. As for me, I'm sick of censoring literature--I don't care what it has in it. The War Gases was published in 1929 as public literature. There were no terrorist attacks using chemical weapons as a result--and that book details very clearly the syntheses of dozens of Chemical Agents. And don't even start with, "terrorism wasn't a problem in the 1930's." Terrorism has ALWAYS existed--9/11 wasn't the start of terror, and terror didn't suddenly get worse after 9/11. There was a bombing on Wallstreet in the 1920s, Alexander II of Russia was assassinated by suicide bombers, there was an assassination attempt on Woodrow Wilson following the German surrender in WWI. We could have a whole list of banned and subversive literature! We could give our kids a dumbed-down science curriculum in school, so they never think about such things. Is this what we want? How much are we willing to sacrifice to the Government to fight an overblown terror threat? Since when has a government proved it can be trusted when it confiscates any reasonable liberties? Is this how free speech and a free press looks to you?"
"Simply knowing how to do something does not mean you will do it. I know how to stab someone with a knife, but I don't think I will. Trying to outlaw its mention or discussion is not going to make the problem go away. Madmen and terrorists wanting to carry out attacks don't post their plans in advance on online forums. And similarly, they don't need them to carry out an attack anyway."
"I totally understand the opinions of many, who see such websites as inappropriate, but they must realise that their existence changes nothing. All the information is freely available anyway. It's just nice to be able to chat about your hobby with like-minded individuals."
"I am currently studying chemistry with biochemistry at Cambridge university, and I certainly would not be there if it were not for the fact that I started playing with pyrotechnics at an early age."
"Everybody nowadays is talking about the threat of bomb making looneys reading those stupid forums like totse.com, but nobody is talking about the 380 tons of high explosive material and weapons that went missing in the desert during America's little war game abroad. Where do you think this eventually goes hmmm...
"Potential terorists can get their training on making bombs in training camps from teachers with lots of practical experience. They do not need such sites"
"Most of what we discuss is totally useless to potential terrorists, anyway. It's too complicated and too expensive. Remember, the world trade centre was smashed to the ground essentially using craft-knives. Terrorists don't care about novel tetrazole-based primaries, or how to add 3% to their yield of RDX. The only people that such knowledge will hurt are the people who use it. Everyone likes fireworks, and you can make them much bigger and better if you make them yourself."
"Nowhere were detailed schemes of how to fly and hijack a commercial airliner. Hell, in fact you could say that Microsoft Flight Simulator is the guilty one, and computer games should be banned since this was used to plan their attack!"
"Although it is an interesting moral problem about the freedom of information, there's no comparison between a group of people making some interesting compounds in their garage and world-wide destruction, without a fairly major leap of imagination."
"iDefense sounds like one of those Fundamentalist groups that try to attack everything by hanging on to politicians. And in a bad way too--they're like those annoying business advertisements. And since this is geared towards hobbyists, it's not like every audience that sees it is going to understand it. Those iDefense attacks are just like people misunderstanding the purpose of science and attacking it for the wrong reasons."
"I don't want this stuff on the web, but I certainly don't want anybody censoring the web. I would rather have a web with porn sites and explosive recipes than have one that our leader is able to make safe."
"Unless there was specific reference to terrorist apparatus and devices / advice, I DO NOT want the government censoring the internet."
"Infomation control is like gun control. Only the Police state and the organised criminals have power."
"It started with the prohibition against pedophilia, then pro terrorist speech, now hate speech what ever the fuck that is (it is in the eye of the beholder, so one never knows).. What will be next? Something will, once we begin to regulate speech there is always a next on the list"